tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8145150938922509338.post643070115916946791..comments2023-08-03T08:08:27.776-07:00Comments on Karen's Poetry Spot: Choruses from ‘The Rock’ by T. S. EliotKaren Ahlstromhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08494601453714239376noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8145150938922509338.post-40334946748906332402007-08-20T15:09:00.000-07:002007-08-20T15:09:00.000-07:00The religious references with regards to T.S. Elio...The religious references with regards to T.S. Eliot reminded me of the following poem:<BR/> <BR/>Here is the last stanza of Little Gidding (#4 or Four Quartets) by T.S. Eliot. I really love this poem. It's interesting because when he says "And the end of all our exploring/ will be to arrive where we started/ and know the place for the first time/" it makes me think of returning to the spirit world, or to a paradisaical world. Death will really be a return to the beginning, knowing it all newly. <BR/>lesli<BR/> <BR/>LITTLE GIDDING<BR/>(No. 4 of 'Four Quartets') <BR/>T.S. Eliot<BR/><BR/>We shall not cease from exploration<BR/>And the end of all our exploring<BR/>Will be to arrive where we started<BR/>And know the place for the first time.<BR/>Through the unknown, unremembered gate<BR/>When the last of earth left to discover <BR/>Is that which was the beginning;<BR/>At the source of the longest river<BR/>The voice of the hidden waterfall<BR/>And the children in the apple-tree<BR/>Not known, because not looked for<BR/>But heard, half-heard, in the stillness <BR/>Between two waves of the sea.<BR/>Quick now, here, now, always—<BR/>A condition of complete simplicity<BR/>(Costing not less than everything)<BR/>And all shall be well and<BR/>All manner of thing shall be well<BR/>When the tongues of flame are in-folded <BR/>Into the crowned knot of fire<BR/>And the fire and the rose are one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8145150938922509338.post-86009573773178980232007-08-18T10:19:00.000-07:002007-08-18T10:19:00.000-07:00This was from a play he wrote as a collaboration a...This was from a play he wrote as a collaboration as a benefit for churches in the Diocese of London. He would only accept credit for one scene and the choruses. <BR/><BR/>He wrote on Christian poem after he converted to Anglicanism: Ash Wednesday.<BR/><BR/>I haven't read either of those past what I posted here, but I did listen to an audio recording of Murder in the Cathedral. I was very impressed, and would highly reccomend it (though I'd suggest reading it instead of listening--it was kind of hard to follow which character was speaking).Karen Ahlstromhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08494601453714239376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8145150938922509338.post-78649670266941877812007-08-18T10:09:00.000-07:002007-08-18T10:09:00.000-07:00Thanks, Karen. I don't think I have read any blat...Thanks, Karen. I don't think I have read any blatantly Christian stuff from Eliot before. This makes me want to go take a second look.<BR/>I read the reviews of SHAM and put it on hold at the library. That sure rings true.<BR/>MomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8145150938922509338.post-70026020585781517702007-08-18T10:08:00.000-07:002007-08-18T10:08:00.000-07:00The story of Mel was great. I had friends like Me...The story of Mel was great. I had friends like Mel in the late 60's-really early 70's who all hung line-printer (ASCII) art on their walls (from the definition of a 'Real Programmer') . Have any of you even seen any? <BR/><BR/>MomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8145150938922509338.post-60819553751452327952007-08-18T10:07:00.000-07:002007-08-18T10:07:00.000-07:00Here's an "epic poem" that actually started out as...Here's an "epic poem" that actually started out as prose, but in the process of being emailed, lines got broken in weird places, and then someone reformatted it in free-verse style. It's been sent around this way ever since.<BR/><BR/>http://catb.org/jargon/html/story-of-mel.html<BR/>-MikeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8145150938922509338.post-30222515617503545952007-08-17T15:26:00.000-07:002007-08-17T15:26:00.000-07:00You're mis-quoting me Lesli :) I never said that f...You're mis-quoting me Lesli :) I never said that free verse has no value. One of the posts in my very first week (which had some of my very favorite poetry) had free verse from Gordon Korman.<BR/><BR/>In my post about The Plum, I said, "I'm not generally a fan of free verse, but as long as it's not overused, it can be forgiven. I think that to qualify as a poem (in my book at least), and not just fancily formatted prose, it has to act like a poem."<BR/><BR/>This one, as you say, certainly acts like a poem. It is a collection of related thoughts and ideas that don't really flow like a traditional paragraph (whereas if it did, it would just be formatted prose). It has a kind of rhythm - not strict - but he does restrict his thoughts to fit on lines of about the same length. He'll often have a couple of lines with closely related sentence structure, which contributes to the poetic feel.<BR/><BR/>If you want examples of the stuff that annoys me in free verse, you'll find a lot of it used in the Poem for the Day in Garrison Keillor's Writer's Alminac.<BR/><BR/>I believe that there are rules to each kind of art form. If you understand those rules, and why they work, you can creatively bend or break them to broaden the scope of the art form. On the other hand, if you just ignore them entirely, and do something totally without structure, then you end up with junk. <BR/><BR/>Take for instance the impressionists -- they bent the rules of absolute realism to show something that was far more real to them -- the perfect moment in time and shifting light that could only be caught if you painted quickly. That led the way to abstract expressionism, where people were just putting colors together to create pleasing patterns or randomness that didn't have to BE anything. But taken to the extreme, you get stuff like Jackson Pollack did that just ends up being a mess.<BR/><BR/>To follow up on your original comment, and to complete the analogy, amateur artists copying the great masters, or learning to paint happy trees, or flowers with one brushstroke, can create a lot of trash that "follows the rules" just like amateur poets who try to write a poem about their week at girls camp for a fireside (and I've heard some bad ones) create junk with as little artistic value.<BR/><BR/>What I'm saying is that I agree with you that the important part of a poem is the thoughtful and skillful use of words. I happen to find that for me, poems that have an obvious structure of rhythm and rhyme are more often (though not exclusively) pleasing to MY senses.Karen Ahlstromhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08494601453714239376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8145150938922509338.post-68648330059630114592007-08-17T14:57:00.000-07:002007-08-17T14:57:00.000-07:00I remember you said at the beginning of this poetr...I remember you said at the beginning of this poetry blog that you thought that free verse had no value. Well, I'm glad you included this. This does not rhyme. I think there is a lot of rhyming poetry that is wonderful, and an even larger amount that is not good at all, and the same with what you called free verse. Each can have wonderful merit and use of words. <BR/>LesliAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com